Revised Core Book

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David
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Revised Core Book

Postby David » Tue Jan 09, 2018 5:29 pm


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Re: Revised Core Book

Postby Sapare » Sun Jan 14, 2018 10:41 am

Should I be replying here or on the reddit? Does it matter? Because I am not really a reddit kinda pone. (Also, hey I am back. Have not forgotten about Ponyfinder, just been busy)

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Re: Revised Core Book

Postby David » Sun Jan 14, 2018 10:46 am

Either is fine.

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Re: Revised Core Book

Postby Sapare » Sun Jan 14, 2018 11:26 am

Well, I am far from an expert in English(prob wouldn't even count as having the linguistics skill), but I'll have some time to kill at work and been reading through the books again anyway, so I will do that. Just to make sure I don't full derp and go through the wrong book, the most current iteration is First Edition, First Revision, correct?

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Re: Revised Core Book

Postby David » Sun Jan 14, 2018 12:08 pm

The Pathfinder version of the Campaign Setting, the first book released by the first Kickstarter.

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Re: Revised Core Book

Postby Sapare » Sun Jan 14, 2018 2:24 pm

I mean no offense but I think we talked past each other there. I understand that we are talking about Ponyfinder Campaign_Setting for Pathfinder. My question was simply if the "First Edition, First Revision" (as stated on page 5 in the book) is the most current edition of the manual or if I am reading an old copy. Common sense dictates that the version currently on drivethrurpg is the most current and it seems to be "First Edition, First Revision", but I simply wanted to make sure, because sometimes odd things happen. And if it was not the most current iteration then it would be pointless to go through it and point out errors that have already been addressed.

I hope this clears it up, if not, don't worry about it, pretty confident I have the correct edition anyway.

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Re: Revised Core Book

Postby David » Sun Jan 14, 2018 2:33 pm

I haven't made any other editions or revisions. This is the first revision we're talking about now, making a second edition.

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Re: Revised Core Book

Postby Sapare » Wed Jan 17, 2018 9:08 am

Alright, I am going to be posting my correction in parts because I have a bunch of down hours at work and that is when I pour over this, and I go into A LOT of detail, so I will post them as I finish each day. Hopefully you can do something with these, I am mostly focusing on the formatting of rules(and this will be in order from Page 1 to last page):

Page 7(nitpick): The way the text layers over the image is a little awkward, makes it hard to read and does not blend that well. It is one of the few athstetics I will point out, but it just always struck me as an awkward introduction to what is otherwise a much better looking book.

I believe that formatting should be consistent between books, starting here I will point out a lot of traits(and other) that while not often factually wrong, have been written in a more precise and elegant manner in later books(Tribes/Races of Everglow). My hope is that this book can be adjusted to their standards where possible. Mind that I will not point out all cases where this inequality exists as I am under the assumption some are intended or would require a lot of extra work to fix, I will simply point to those most glaring and/or most simple to adjust:

They will be in the format of "Left side is quote from Core book / Right side is more the equivalent from a more current book".

Page 8(Ponykind Racial Traits):
Medium: Ponies are medium size and gain no bonuses or penalties due to their size./ Medium: Ponies are Medium creatures and have no bonuses or penalties due to their size.

Fast Speed: Ponies have a base speed of 40 feet, and a bipedal speed of 20 feet. / Quick: Ponies have a base speed of 40 feet (20 feet bipedal).

Quadruped: Due to being four-legged, ponykind receive +4 racial bonus to their Combat Maneuver Defense against trip attacks and +50% carrying capacity. / Four-Legged: Ponies gain a +4 racial bonus to CMD against trip attempts and increase their carrying capacity by +50%. They have forelegs instead of arms.

Fingerless: See fingerless rules. / Fingerless: See fingerless rules on page 9.

[Side note:
There is also some inconsistency based on the fact that the Tribe's book does away with the concept of a core pony race and expands the three tribes into their own races. However, I understand why it is done the way it is in the core book and think in general it is a good idea for the core book.(As it did not need to subdivide races yet)

However, tangently related but more of an issue with Tribes of Everglow: In the core book this is said:
"Earth-Bound: Ponies gain a +2 racial bonus on saving throws against poison, spells, and spelllike abilities, as well as Endurance as a bonus feat at 1st level."
Which ties(correctly) Endurance to Earth-Bound. However, due to the changes in the Tribes book Endurance is stated as being tied to "Unique Destiny". Which is a trait that unicorns and Pegasi still have, it simply works different even though it shares the same name(and by the core book is the same trait). I would assume that having two identically named traits(three if you count the core book) with varying effects is a faux pas and might need a fix in the future, Endurance should be moved to "Hardy".]

For some reason that I can not fathom in the title headers(the bold text) A always looks lower case, even when capitalized. If this is not intended it ought to be fixed. This is an issue throughout the whole book.

Page 9:
Fingerless rules Formatting:
(This is ommited in the core book)/One-handed weapons with the ammunition property may be loaded despite lacking a free hand.

Page 10:

Pegasus formatting:

Flight: Pegasi have a fly speed of 30 feet with clumsy maneuverability. / Pegasus Wings: Pegasi have a fly speed of 30 feet (clumsy) while they are not wearing medium or heavy armor.

Mind that it does state the armor restrictions later in the paragraph, just not as part of the trait itself.

I think the "Replace attribute modifiers with" could stand to be reworded into a trait or some form of "title" that would allow it to be in bold and consolidate the statement. Maybe something as simple as saying "Ability Scores:" as done with the core pony race.
[Side note, not sure if Ability Scores is a correct term for Attributes in Pathfinder but that is what the core Ponyfinder book calls them. In the later books it simply gives the attribute modifiers without titling them, which is why I have not put it down as a correction till now.]

Unicorn Formatting:
"These Racial traits replace the normal pony attribute modifier and the earth-bound trait. " That line is fine but the way it formats itself into the book is incredibly awkward as "the earth-" becomes its own section at the bottom left and will leave readers confused. It simply needs to moved to the right with the rest of the line.

Page 11:
Clockwork Formatting:

Half Construct, Fragile Soul, Extreme Design are all consolidated into one in Tribes of Everglow and I think it works better, there should be no harm to update the core book with the new text. / Half-Construct: Clockworks gain a +2 racial bonus on saving throws against disease, mind-affecting effects, poison, and effects that cause either exhaustion or fatigue. They do not breathe, eat, or sleep, unless they want to gain some beneficial effect from one of these activities. Clockworks cannot be raised or resurrected.

Page 12:
Doppleganger Nitpick:
"Though perhaps different motivations draw you to adventuring. Though doppelgangers tend more towards selfish alignments, individuals can seek greater things, despite their origin."
I think the repeated use of though could be fixed.

Doppleganger Formatting:(Might actually be a case where the older book was correct, from my quick look at the skill):
Change Shape, Lesser: / Lesser Change Shape:

Gem Pony:
Crystalline: +2 racial bonus to Armor Class vs. rays. Once per day, a Gem Pony can deflect a single ray attack targeted at them as if they were using the Deflect Arrows feat without the free hand requirement. / Crystalline Form: Gem ponies have crystalline skin that grants them a +2 racial bonus to AC against rays. Once per day, they can deflect a single ray attack targeted at them as if they were using the Deflect Arrows feat(but without the need for a free hand).

Leather Wing Formating:

Flight: Leather wings have a fly speed of 30 feet with clumsy maneuverability. / Leather Wings: Leather wings have a fly speed of 30 feet (clumsy) while they are not wearing medium or heavy armor.

There is also some persisting inconsistencies with Leather wings rarely but sometimes having "wings" capitalized. Note in "Minesight" in core book and in the Attribute descriptor of the Tribes book. I can not see a reasoning for this outside of just being a slip-up.

Sea Horse formating:

Gain 40ft. swim speed. Swim becomes a class skill. / Waterborne: Sea horses have a swim speed of 40 feet and always treat Swim as a class skill.

(Interesting to note that Swim does not automatically become a class skill with a natural swim speed, while having a natural fly speed always gives Fly as a class skill, do you think that is an oversight on the Pathfinder side of things?)

Page 14:

Zebra Formatting:
+4 racial bonus to Linguistics and gain an additional language per rank in linguistics. /Gifted Linguist: Zebra gain a +4 racial bonus on Linguistics checks, and they learn one additional language very time they put a rank in the Linguistics skill.

Their practice with often dangerous, if effective, traditional remedies means zebras cannot accidentally poison themselves when applying poison to a blade. / Poison Use: Zebra cannot poison themselves accidentally while applying poison.


(Side note, I know much less about the formatting for Bloodlines and archetypes, so I will refrain from commenting on them as much)

Formatting between page 15 and 16 inconsistent, on page 15 Class skill,bonus spells and so on.. are bold, on page 16 the same titles are italicized instead.

Page 16:

"Bloodline Powers: Vampiric sorcerers exude the
deadly charm of their origin as they gain further
understanding of their damned nature."

I actually have no idea what that means or does, though this might be a fault of my limited knowledge of the class rather then the ability being wrong.

Page 25:

[Note: I have always found that it was awkward that Feats which require another Feat as prerequisite can show later in the list due to alphabetic ordering. I am aware that it is consistent with normal Pathfinder books and probably should stay this way, but just a personal petpeve.]

(I had the Blade Turning Pelt note but being its in your Errata I will not bring up any of those that you have listed there before)

Page 27:
Hopeful Heart
"Use the standard DC for its spell level and casting stat or 10 + 1/2 hit die + higher of charisma or constitution bonus."

Not really sure how I am supposed to decide between the two options, or when the 2nd might be used.

Master Changeling:
Not sure if reference or oversight, but technacly it would make more sense for it(and other Feats) to be called Doppleganger because Changeling is an actual race.
Also, character in "character level 9" is not capitalized

Page 29: Rapid Changeling, character not capitalized .

Page 30: Strong Jaw: Prerequisite refers to any fingerless race, but the description specifically refers to ponies. Not sure which is the intended application.

Strong Wings: character not capitalized .

Stubborn Pride: character not capitalized

Page 32:

Pretty much the same formating changes as with Pony race but I will post them for consistency. Mind that unless otherwise stated I am from this point on using Races of Everglow as 2ndary source, not Tribes, for obvious reasons.:


Cloven:


Medium: Cloven are medium size and gain no bonuses or penalties due to their / Medium: Cloven are Medium creatures and have no bonuses or penalties due to their size.

(The sentence is actually cut off in the core book, so at least there is also a real error)


Fast Speed: Cloven have a base speed of 40 feet, and a bipedal speed of 20 feet. / Quick: Cloven have a base speed of 40 feet (20 feet bipedal).

Mountain Footed: Immune to altitude sickness and keeps Dex bonus to AC while making Climb
or Acrobatics checks to cross narrow or slippery surfaces. / Mountaineer: Cloven are immune to altitude sickness and keep their Dexterity bonus to AC when making Climb checks or Acrobatics checks to cross narrow or slippery surfaces.

Horned: Cloven get a natural gore attack that deals 1d4 damage. / Horned: Cloven gain a gore attack as a primary natural attack that deals 1d4 piercing damage.

(I believe the core book in general forgets to state if the natural attack is primary or not, so it might be worth checking those even if I forget to post one of them)

Cloven Resilience: Cloven get a bonus against poison equal to their hit dice. / Cloven Resilience: Cloven gain a racial bonus equal to their hit dice on saving throws against poison.

Fingerless: See fingerless rules. / Fingerless: See fingerless rules on page 9.

Quadruped: Due to being four-legged, cloven receive +4 racial bonus to their Combat Maneuver Defense against trip attacks and +50% carrying capacity. / Four-Legged: Cloven gain a +4 racial bonus to CMD against trip attempts and increase their carrying capacity by +50%. They have forelegs instead of arms.


Page 34:
Flutterpony Formating and such:

Type: Fey / Flutterpony: Flutterponies are fey with the flutterpony subtype.

Medium: Flutterponies are medium size and gain no bonuses or penalties due to their size. / Medium: Flutterponies are Medium creatures and have no bonuses or penalties due to their size.

Normal speed: Flutters have a base speed of 30 feet, and a bipedal speed of 20 feet. / Normal Speed: Flutterponies have a base speed of 30 feet (30 feet bipedal).

This might actually be a mistake in the Race book but I am not sure, leaving it here for you to figure out.

Fingerless: See fingerless rules. /Fingerless: See fingerless rules on page 9.

Butterfly Wings: Flutters have a fly speed of 30 feet with average maneuverability, and cannot fly in medium or heavy armor. Fly becomes a class skill.

Funny enough this is the first(maybe only) time in the Core book the ability was written as should be.(even if formated differently from the more recent books and it should prob be edited to be in line with them.) I will not be posting the Races of Everglow version because it is factually wrong.(it ommited the armor restrictions by mistake) Also, you do not(maybe should not) have to mention that Fly becomes a class skill, this is already covered by the core Pathfinder rule dictating that if a creature has a natural Fly speed it gains Fly as a class skill.


Small Origins: Flutterponies may shrink themselves as per reduce person once per day as a spell-like ability with a caster level equal to their character level. / Small Origins: A flutterpony can use reduce person once each per day, using its character level as its caster level and affecting itself only.

Due to the above two mention cases I have my concerns that the core book might be more accurate then the Race book here, but I will post this one because I just don't know.(most notable the "spell-like" nomination.)


Quadruped: Due to being four-legged, flutters receive +4 racial bonus to their Combat Maneuver Defense against trip attacks and +50% carrying capacity. / Four-Legged: Flutterponies gain a +4 racial bonus to CMD against trip attempts and increase their carrying capacity by +50%. They have forelegs instead of arms.

I was going to refer to the Griffons of Everglow book for reference here but it turns out that it actually uses the same formatting as the Core Book. I am under the impression that the Tribes/Races of Everglow books are newer and as such will continue to refer to them when judging the formatting but its a toss up as that will make the core book formatted different from the Griffions of Everglow again:

In the Griffion racial traits, after Ability scores it continues to its flight trait, the size trait(medium) being the 3rd thing expressed. This is inconsistent with previous races.(where the first trait expressed after atributes was always their size) This might seem really nitpicky but in later books you keep a consistent format, so I assume this is technically a mistake.(at least within the same book. Format does change between Griffon of Everglow and Tribes of Everglow)

Flight: Griffons have a fly speed of 40 feet with poor maneuverability. Fly becomes a class skill.

Should be in the style of : Griffon Wings: Griffion have a fly speed of 40 feet (poor) while they are not wearing medium or heavy armor.

In the core book it does not state any restrictions based on armor but on page 37 there is a feat specifically to allow you to fly while in medium or heavy armor, as such I assume that the restriction is supposed to be there.

Bite: Griffons have a bite attack that does 1d6 damage

Should be:
Bite: Griffions gain a bite attack as a primary natural attack that deals 1d6 bludgeoning, slashing, and piercing damage. (I used entry on Phoenix Wolves in the Races of Everglow as reference)

Medium: Griffons are medium size and gain no bonuses or penalties due to their size.

Should be:

Medium: Griffions are Medium creatures and have no bonuses or penalties due to their size.


Normal Speed: griffions have a base speed of 30 feet, and a bipedal speed of 20 feet.

Should be:

Normal Speed: Griffions have a base speed of 30 feet (20 feet bipedal).

Cloud Walker: Griffon may treat fog, mist, or any cloud, as solid

Should be*: Cloud Walker: A griffon may treat fog or other clouds as solid objects for the purposes of taking walks, playing games, fashioning an improvised weapon, and so on. Activating or deactivating this feature is a free action taken on the griffons’ turn. Should a griffon become incapacitated it continues to function indefinitely and they treat all clouds as solid objects.

*I used the Pegasus entry on Cloud Walker from the Tribes of Everglow book as a reference but I realized that I did not point out this correction in the Pegasus section of the Core book. Mostly because this very long term description would not fit well into the Pegasus page.(as it is already very crowded) Not sure what the better call would be here because you are either inconsistent between books or in the same book, but I just wanted to note it for completion sake. For me, I don't think the original short description was particularly confusing, but I would at least add in the "Should a griffon become incapacitated it continues to function indefinitely and they treat all clouds as solid objects." because that part is important for the rules.

Quadruped: Due to being four-legged,griffons receive +4 racial bonus to theirCombat Maneuver Defense against trip attacks and +50% carrying capacity. / Four-Legged: Griffons gain a +4 racial bonus to CMD against trip attempts and increase their carrying capacity by +50%. They have forelegs instead of arms.

Page 37:

Sharpened Talons:

Prerequisite: Griffon, Bab +4
Benefit: You gain two claw attacks that deal 1d4 damage each.


You gain two natural secondary claw attacks that deal 1d4 bludgeoning and slashing damage each.

(Or something along this line, I do not have a reference to write from for this so I simply wrote it based on my assumption. In either case, the original is lacking the type of damage, type of attack, and that they are natural weapons)

Page 39:

Phoenix Wolf formating:

Type: Fey(Fire) / Phoenix Wolf: Phoenix wolves are fey with the phoenix wolf subtype.

Medium: Phoenix wolves are medium size and gain no bonuses or penalties due to their size. / Medium: Phoenix wolves are Medium creatures and have no bonuses or penalties due to their size.

Fast Speed: Phoenix wolves have a base speed of 40 feet, and a bipedal speed of 20 feet. / Quick: Phoenix wolves have a base speed of 40 feet (20 feet bipedal).


Bite: Phoenix wolves have 1 bite attack that deals 1d6 / Bite: Phoenix wolves gain a bite attack as a primary natural attack that deals 1d6 bludgeoning, slashing, and piercing damage.


Quadruped: Due to being four-legged, purrsians receive +4 racial bonus to their Combat Maneuver Defense against trip attacks and +50% carrying capacity. / Four-Legged: Phoenix wolves gain a +4 racial bonus to CMD against trip attempts and increase their carrying capacity by +50%. They have forelegs instead of arms.

Battle Tactics: Phoenix wolves have a +2 to attempts to feint, or to the DC against being feinted. / Battle Tactics: Phoenix wolves gain a +2 racial bonus on attempts to feint and the DC of a check made to feint them increases by +2.

Fingerless: See fingerless rules./ Fingerless: See fingerless rules on page 9.

Page 40:
Sharpened Claws:
Benefit: You gain two claw attacks that deal 1d4 damage each.

Should be:
You gain two natural secondary claw attacks that deal 1d4 bludgeoning and slashing damage each.

(Or something along this line, I do not have a reference to write from for this so I simply wrote it based on my assumption. In either case, the original is lacking the type of damage, type of attack, and that they are natural weapons)

Sun Kiss, character level is not capitalized.


That is as far as I got in the few hours I had last night. Hopefully at it helps.

Edit: Removed the "Piercing" damage from the claw attacks because after googling it I realized that the damage types of natural weapons is predefined. There might be other places I messed up the damage type. It should be Bludgeoning Slashing and Piercing only if its a bite. At least that is the impression I am under.

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Re: Revised Core Book

Postby David » Wed Jan 17, 2018 9:59 am

That is an impressive amount of data, thank you!

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Re: Revised Core Book

Postby David » Wed Jan 17, 2018 9:59 am

Oh, would you like a credit in the book? If so, what name under?


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