I don't get why Kara is evil.

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ryanwraith1
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I don't get why Kara is evil.

Postby ryanwraith1 » Sat Jan 03, 2015 10:46 am

I honestly think she is more of a Neutral Goddess. All she want is to spread love across Everglow, and she does what is best for her people's prosperity. Can someone explain to me why she is more of an evil goddess?
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David
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Re: I don't get why Kara is evil.

Postby David » Sat Jan 03, 2015 10:48 am

She is extremely greedy, has no problem with murder to further her objectives, and is kind of lying about a lot of her true nature.

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Re: I don't get why Kara is evil.

Postby thevampman24 » Sat Jan 03, 2015 11:09 am

And let us not forget that for her to manifest on this plane, one of her worshippers must be sacrificed and she controls the corpse.

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ryanwraith1
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Re: I don't get why Kara is evil.

Postby ryanwraith1 » Sat Jan 03, 2015 11:11 am

@thevamp

Yes, but subject is willing, and gets rewarded in the afterlife.
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Jynnx
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Re: I don't get why Kara is evil.

Postby Jynnx » Mon Jan 05, 2015 9:14 am

ryanwraith1 wrote:@thevamp

Yes, but subject is willing, and gets rewarded in the afterlife.


Irrelevant. Kara's intentions are purely malicious. If I decide I want to break into someone's house and steal all their crap, that's an act of evil - neutral evil, specifically, because it's an act committed for purely self-serving purposes, with no regard to how it might affect others. If someone in that house says, "Sure, come on, you can have whatever you want anyway," it doesn't change my motives.

Alignment is about motives - purpose - first. Actions and context only become important when they muddy a person's intent or would belie a truer, hidden motive.
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David
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Re: I don't get why Kara is evil.

Postby David » Mon Jan 05, 2015 9:18 am

You have just called a lot of charity places that will gladly take all your stuff, with permission, for resale, completely evil.

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Jynnx
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Re: I don't get why Kara is evil.

Postby Jynnx » Mon Jan 05, 2015 9:26 am

David wrote:You have just called a lot of charity places that will gladly take all your stuff, with permission, for resale, completely evil.


If they went in with the intention of stealing, as is the focus of my metaphor, then we all know where that "charity" was going in the first place! :laugh:
Let me sleep through this time of pain,
And grant me innocent dreams.
Rouse me during the first summer rain,
When all the world's at peace, it seems.

* * *

Watch Jynnxed TV on YouTube!

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David
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Re: I don't get why Kara is evil.

Postby David » Mon Jan 05, 2015 9:50 am

But is it stealing if it's given willingly, is the question.

Kara only takes what is given, at least for purpose of that specific ritual.

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Re: I don't get why Kara is evil.

Postby Jynnx » Mon Jan 05, 2015 10:11 am

Bah, that's obfuscation. The charity didn't "take" anything - the owner of the item gave it to them. Whether they had to go to the item, or the item was given to them, is irrelevant. Ownership was transferred before the item itself changed hands. That's why you can tell someone who has broken into your house that they can take whatever they want, and still press charges for breaking and entering, trespassing, and theft (or grand larceny, depending on the total value of goods taken).

In the case of Kara, as I said before, her intent is purely malicious. Dungeons and Dragons - and subsequently Pathfinder - is a game system which only works because the game worlds are not like our real world. These are places where Good and Evil are things that exist with capital letters. They are forces of the universe, as gravity and time, and are immutable. So even if she doesn't think what she's doing to the world is evil, it still is. Because her intent is evil, it doesn't matter how or why she manages to get there. Only where she is trying to go.

Besides, it's difficult to argue that she's given anything willingly. "Given" implies a level of informed consent that may not necessarily be the case here. Kara is automatically and irrevocably in a position of authority and deeper understanding than any of her cultists. There is an uneven power dynamic there you cannot get away from, which instantly colors any exchange between her or her worshipers that involves harm coming to them.

Not to mention that it runs dangerously close to the old Bard Litmus Test. A bard that uses her skill to earn a living from her crowds is using that ability in an ethical manner. Not necessarily good or evil, because she could very well be evil and simply wish to keep a low profile on her abilities. But a bard who fascinates her crowd and then follows that up with a suggestion that they give her all their valuables has crossed into evil territory. Did her audience "willingly" give her everything on their person? Sure; if you count being under someone's influence willing.

*shrugs*

I grew up with an older generation of gamers. Alignment has always been, for me, about the intent behind a character's actions, as much as the actions themselves. Kara fits her alignment exceptionally well, in that regard.
Let me sleep through this time of pain,
And grant me innocent dreams.
Rouse me during the first summer rain,
When all the world's at peace, it seems.

* * *

Watch Jynnxed TV on YouTube!

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David
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Re: I don't get why Kara is evil.

Postby David » Mon Jan 05, 2015 11:18 am

She does many wickedly evil things and plots evil actions and thinks in evil ways, but she, at no point, directs a hoof at a follower and demands they kill themselves. That is their choice. Kara does nothing but take advantage of the action -after- it is complete. It's one thing she's pretty clear about. If you stab yourself in the heart with that dagger, you will die. You will pass on, and if the time is right, Kara will rise up from your remains. Of all the duplicitous things she's done, this one is almost refreshingly honest and forthright, considering she does not bind anyone with mind altering magic.


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